Did Christ come to start a new religion? If so, why? If not, why? (Passages to consider in this question, Matthew 5:17, 2 Cor 3:5-6 Rom 7:22 Rom 7:12 Rom 3:31. Rom 10:4 1 Tim 1:5 Eph 2:14–15 Col
Do you think we can understand Jesus (his ministry and death) apart from the Old Testament?
What is the role of the Old Testament in your church?
*Please feel free to answer all of these or just some. I will respond to your answers so keep checking back.
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First question: First of all, give us some Old Testament passages to answer your question. He did not come to start a new religion. There was so much in the Old Testament that is reflected in the New, not to mention the prophecies! The Old Testament is jammed full of prophecies that Christ will come, starting in Genesis 3. The OT is such an integral part of the NT, the NT would not exist without it. It should be read for its historical value, but also to remind us that we are God's people, just like those in the OT, and ultimately God wants us to live a life sold out to him. To whom much is given, much is expected. God's grace and mercy, however, does not just show up in the New Testament. How many times did he forgive his people for prostituting themselves to other god's?
There is no way to understand his ministry but especially his death without understanding who God is, what he expected and what he needed as revealed in the OT.
hey derek, you bring up a good point currently at youth group we are studying throught the 10 commandments and their relevance today. It suprises me how many Christian kids and adults don't even know the 10 commandments. reading the OT is something we don't do very often, and I am not sure exactly why. Jesus didn't come to start a new religion, and its IMPOSSIBLE to understand Jesus and his message completely without some knowledge of the OT. I am not sure how you fix this problem other than stressing the importance of it from the pulpit or making it part of your daily routine, but somehow it needs to be emphasized more.
Wish I could be more help, me and Jen miss you guys.
GOOD LUCK
Jesse
Thanks for your comments so far, the consensus seems to be that Christ did not come to establish a new religion and we cannot understand him without the Old Testament. I think most of the OT illiteracy in our churches stems from our teaching in the past. We have held the OT at arms length beside using a story here or there to help illuminate a sermon or lesson pulled from the New Testament.
Also to mix things up a big, if Jesus did not come to start a new religion, or "abolish the law" (Mt. 5:17), then why does Paul say "Christ is the end of the law" (Rom. 4:10)? How do we reconcile Paul and Jesus, did they teach something different?
Hey D. I love this topic. The Old Testment to me has, in some ways,more value than the NT. I say that strictly based that it gives the foundation and background into Christ's life and Ministry. Without a thurough understanding of the OT and the social life that is depicted we cannot get an accurate understanding those what and why questions of Christ's ministry. In the church I don't think that it is a topcic that gets much attention. The "popular" stories like david and samson etc. get attention, but I don't think we give NEARLY enough thought and discussion in comparison to what the NT gets.
Did Christ start a new religion? I don't think thats what His goal/purpose was, but maybe in some ways that was the result. I see like this, when a child reaches for an electrical outlet a parent doesn't try to reason with the child and tell them all the what's and why's of an outlet, a parent jumps straight to "No don't touch". Later as the child grows up and the life experience of the child is not as young and immature to those dangers, the conversation then changes to answering those what's and why's. I believe that the OT is the "No don't do these things" the structure and outline of living, and then the NT follows with the more indepth answers to the why & why not's. Starting with Christ's ministry and then followed by his disciples and Paul, the NT shows and explains the intended big picture that a Child may miss by hearing all the rules growing up.
Hope that helps D, with your project. I love the topic of the OT and hope to be going to Grad school soon. Miss you bro. Hope all is well.
Jon Wells
Did Christ come to start a new religion? If so, why? If not, why? (Passages to consider in this question, Matthew 5:17, 2 Cor 3:5-6 Rom 7:22 Rom 7:12 Rom 3:31. Rom 10:4 1 Tim 1:5 Eph 2:14–15 Col 2:14)
In my opinion, no, for a couple of reasons. First, he made it clear that he was the fulfillment of all that his own religion of Judaism had pointed to, and of all that Jews had hoped for.
Secondly, I think that Jesus (and Paul after him) taught and demonstrated the belief that often religion can itself be the problem rather than the solution. Paul was a religious "professional" and he said in no uncertain terms that religion by itself was insufficient, and that if you were "in Christ" then religion was (in a sense, at least) unnecessary in order to "be right" with God.
Do you think we can understand Jesus (his ministry and death) apart from the Old Testament?
No. I believe that if Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross and his role as Messiah are as central as the Gospel says they are, then we have to be familiar with the roles that those terms played in the ancient Jewish world. It is very difficult to understand their meaning apart from their Old Testament context.
What is the role of the Old Testament in our Church?
I like Yancey's book The Bible Jesus Read, and I am especially fond of the title. I think it is well worth our while to frequently preach and teach from the Old Testament, and to at least attempt to view it from the eyes of Jesus.
Thank you for your comments, ideas, suggestions. John I believe your suggestion to look at the OT through the eyes of Jesus is indispensable. We as Christians are not very good at thinking of how the scriptures were relevant to those who originally read them. For example, One of my family members sent me an email with a scripture passage attached, I cannot remember the exact reference, but it was a promise of prosperity to the nation of Israel. Now this email with out explanation or apology applied this passage to America, and our right to prosperity.
We should not only view the Old Testament though Jesus' eyes, but maybe through the eyes of Hezekiah, Isaiah, Ezra, David, and other writers/readers of the Hebrew Bible.
Any other suggestions on how to apply this to your church?
When I read the Old Testament I have a referance book in hand, such as a Bible Dictionary, and I don't read it to myself, I listen to it on CD following along. All those big names, sometimes I get too caught up sounding them out, I lose the story line!
I teach the Jr. church kids (ages 4-10 yrs. all together) from Genesis on (am now in Joshua.) This is my choice to do it this way. I want a panoramic view of God's love & dealings with His creation. I know 5 yr. olds won't get it yet, but I'm hoping the 9/10 yr. olds are starting to "catch" some things. the O. T. comes alive in light of the N. T.
Okay here goes my 2 cents:
Awhile back my wife and I decided to jump back into organized Bible studies as we strongly feel the Word is better when it is shared with others.
My wife is a life-long Lutheran and I am a cradle Catholic. We go to two different churches and it was just luck of the draw that my church was offering a Bible study when we needed one.
We started with something called The Great Adventure a DVD and workbook series put out by Ascension Press.
The first topic was A Quick Journey Through the Bible. This was narrated by Jeff Cavins and took you from Genesis to the Death of Christ. All this in 8 weeks. :-)
After that the church asked me to facilitate the next study which was Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. This study lasted 10 weeks.
And we now started a 24 week study of Matthew: The King and His Kingdom.
Just last night we were discussing how King Herod knew the Old Testament and the prophecy that a Star would show the way to the new King. Herod knew he was in trouble and that is why he wanted all male children under the age of two killed.
The New Testament builds on the Old Testament and the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant to Abraham.
I have come to realize that to read the Old Testament or any part of the Bible totally alone without Theological input is foolish.
I don't think Christ came to start a new religion and I certainly don't think he wanted us to call it Christianity. He just wanted us to worship God the Father. We now have a Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God's presence in the Holy Spirit.
If we do not embrace the Old Testament we lose how God was thinking from the beginning. Many ask why does God allow this or that? It is called Free Will and God gave this to us. Those that choose to use it to follow him will be with him through all time.
Every time I study the Bible I have an "aha" or "gotcha" moment. I have embraced several Theologians and interpretations from Aramaic, Greek & Hebrew to represent the Word.
When I want to shake up non-believers or just people that think their religion is the "chosen" one I tell them to lighten up as Christ was not a Christian, Catholic, Episcopalian or any of those. He was born a Jew and died a Baptist. I know that is a twist of the truth but sometimes people need to be forced to stop and think.
Hope my rambling helps.
Paul Graham